After months of silence from Mr. Patey it's become obvious that the project has imploded in truly epic fashion. If you read some of the extensive comments on the Kickstarter page you'll see hundreds of very upset supporters, some of them out hundreds of dollars.
I have no idea what happened, but I'd like to apologize for my small part in this fiasco. Mr. Patey advertised the Kickstarter here and I was an enthusiastic supporter of what appeared to be a dream project. A collection of dozens of high end props in support of a Call of Cthulhu classic? Page after page of documents, maps, and photographs? Incredibly well done physical props? This is exactly the kind of thing Propnomicon has always been about. Sadly, it turned into a massive cluster****.
I'm at a loss for how this happened. In all my communication with Mr. Patey he was extremely professional and enthusiastic. Every prop had already been designed and prototyped, all the documents were ready for printing, and independent artists were already lined up to produce the physical items.
The only possible explanation I can think of is that the Kickstarter was too successful and Mr. Patey was overwhelmed. I can imagine it was pretty daunting when the fund drive ended and he found himself responsible for over 500 premium packets for sponsors around the world. That said, his failure to follow through is unforgivable.
I think there's a lesson here. Time and time again we've seen overly ambitious Mythos-related projects melt down. Whenever you see one with dozens of custom items, seemingly endless pledge options, and too good to be true shipping charges, be wary.
I'm a backer on this one, and I've seen the comments in the Kickstarter page. I for one have not gone down the legal route that some backers want to pursue, for a few reasons, but mostly because I'm still holding on to a thread of hope that it could be fulfilled.
ReplyDeleteHe released videos showing that all the papers had been printed, so he must still have them somewhere. My pet theory is that the postage became too much for him, however, the current 'head in the sand' communication strategy is a non starter!
@ Derek : "I for one have not gone down the legal route that some backers want to pursue, for a few reasons, but mostly because I'm still holding on to a thread of hope that it could be fulfilled."
ReplyDeleteAs far as I understand it, the "legal route" hopes to press him for exactly that fulfillment: (1) *preferably* send the promised props, (2) *else* refund the contributions — not making refunds the first choice — but certainly as opposed to status quo, just sitting around doing nothing at all....
I'm a big bucks backer who DID go down the legal route, and Raven is exactly right -- our intent is to force him to get his head OUT of the sand and start fulfilling the pledges. If he refuses to do that, then sure, I want a refund, but as I and everyone else over there has said, we'd MUCH prefer to just get our props, already.
ReplyDeleteEspecially as he has claimed (and shown, sort of, in one video) that he at least has the various paper props in hand.
But since he refuses to communicate with us in any way, we are taking a legal option that exists to FORCE that communication. Just walking away with nearly $75K of other people's money ain't gonna fly...
I'm a big bucks backer who DID go down the legal route, and Raven is exactly right -- our intent is to force him to get his head OUT of the sand and start fulfilling the pledges. If he refuses to do that, then sure, I want a refund, but as I and everyone else over there has said, we'd MUCH prefer to just get our props, already.
ReplyDeleteEspecially as he has claimed (and shown, sort of, in one video) that he at least has the various paper props in hand.
But since he refuses to communicate with us in any way, we are taking a legal option that exists to FORCE that communication. Just walking away with nearly $75K of other people's money ain't gonna fly...
So for those that are pursuing a "legal" option, what are you actually doing?
ReplyDeleteFrom everything that I have read, there is very little recourse that backers have. I highly doubt that there is much or any money left for refunds (since it doesn't seem like he simply took the money and ran), and if the Kickstarter was formed under an LLC, there probably isn't any personal liability.
From what I have read about the legal situation, since kickstarter is not considered a sale of goods, but rather a contract (as stated on kickstarter's FAQ and other places), you would have to deal with contract law. Which seems to mean that you have to follow the crappy contract that kickstarter has in its TOS. That contract, although it creates obligations for each party, does not seem to actually create penalties for breaking the contract.
A tylermenz: First, I'd suggest you go over to the Kickstarter and read the backer comments. It lays out PRECISELY what we are doing. You make a lot of assumptions in your comment based on not knowing the facts, and it's easy to find out the facts by just going there and reading them.
ReplyDeleteBriefly, however, our recourse exists under Massachusetts State Law, in that they have a system set up requiring residents of MA (as Mr. Patey is) to fulfill promises for goods or services made in exchange for money, regardless of the mechanism used. Our process was initiated by a lawyer who practices in Boston (and who advised us on how to proceed). It sucks to be Ben, in MA, because of that process. Details can be found over on Kickstarter -- you can read the comments, you just can't add any yourself unless you're a backer.
This is just the sort of nonsense that's going to kill Kickstarter. Heck, I'm already reluctant to support anyone because of exactly this sort of thing.
ReplyDeleteOf course being on a fixed income doesn't help either.
@tylermenz
ReplyDeleteThere are many legal options and although the Kickstarter TOS is a binding contract, it is alleged by the backers that Mr. Patey's actions are unfair and deceptive as well as a breach of contract. This confluence makes his failure to produce actionable. That being said, Mr. Patey may be judment proof, i.e. the Backers may never collect. But trying something is better than letting $75,000 be wasted. Also, as an aside, a LLC offers only limited immunity for LLC Members and Managers. If there is unity of interest, one member and manager, one is able to pierce the corporate veil and seek personal liability.
@ Phil : "Heck, I'm already reluctant to support anyone because of exactly this sort of thing."
ReplyDeleteBut then there are reliable project completers like our host, the counterexamples to "exactly this sort of thing".
The lesson to be learned here is that a Buyer should Beware of the shoddy merchandisers but seek out and support the reliable ones.
It's just like learning to vote for the honest politicians, not the crooks, rather than dismissing all politicians as crooks because some are. Otherwise it's the crooks who benefit from being equated with the honest ones, while the honest ones are unjustly penalized with the same equation.
(And I'm on a fixed income too.)